Curse

TGgold · Mar 22, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

So, what, are these people Echo Chaining the Spirit or something? Or are they group joining so that your entire team (other than yourself) are spamming Pestilence to kill Gunther? Last I checked, Pestilence can only be set naturally once every 63 seconds or so (counting cast time and recharge). A full minute (or more, as I don't think anyone will sit there trying to kill the NPC's when their efforts are thwarted every time) is long enough for you to kill the first spirit, run a few pieces of Amber, and get back in time to kill the next spirit. You wouldn't have to camp anything. Besides, if you have a problem with babysitting NPC's/players who don't know how to survive on their own, how do you think Monks feel, given the fact that babysitting idiots is their "job" in this game?

I hoenstly dont' think you understand that KURZICKS are killing KURZICKS. You canot kill the Spirit yourself, since it is an ALLIED spirit. I suppose you could take a rit primary or secondary to soul-feast the spirit, but this is one of the only ways to kill a FRIENDLY SPIRIT. It's not that "other team" that's setting the spirit. I also suppose that you could set Recovery to try and cut down the time that the segen takes effect...but this is still a very, very, very, unsettling exploit of the skill.

Or just give the guards Mend-Ailment.

Faer · Mar 22, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

I hoenstly dont' think you understand that KURZICKS are killing KURZICKS.

I honestly don't think you understand the concept of "context". By "Luxon player", I was obviously talking about a Luxon player on the Kurzick side (I thought it would be evident with my other statements, but apparently you missed those). I'll be sure to write an essay next time though so people don't mistake what I say for something it is not.

This entire discussion is beginning to derail the thread, so I'm going to leave you all to your pondering now and go back to being a silent onlooker.

Skyy High · Mar 22, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Faer, sorry but you're basically suggesting that, instead of getting rid of/discouraging griefers like ANet has done in the past with the EoE fix, Kurzicks should suck it up and completely change how they play the map, just so they can deal with people who are trying to ruin the game. That's bull. That's like saying, "Well, yeah there are players who use aimbots and speedhacks in CS, but if you wait in a corner for them the entire match you can probably kill them when they come at you."

The problem would be fixed by giving the guards a condition removal. Instead, you want us to deal with griefers. I don't get it, at all.

dgb · Mar 22, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I honestly don't see that there's anything wrong wtih the skill. It's not like EoE, which provided ridiculous levels of damage in just about every setting (PVP, general PVE, farming tec.).

If there's a problem with griefing, then it's a problem of scenario design. Putting a "protect x" mission somewhere with random groups is a recipe for disaster to be honest. As it is, I don't think A-Net cares about scrub-PVP, or Factions anymore, so don't expect changes to it.

Leave the skill alone though, it's not the cause of hte problem.

Curse You · Mar 22, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Hmmm, [wiki]Pestilence[/wiki] + [wiki]Toxicity[/wiki] = Uber griever?

The spirit works as intended.

In fact, I propose that this thread be closed on the grounds that there is no proposed fix to the problem, only a complaint.

Undivine · Mar 22, 2007, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Faer, my fellow mod, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. People do have rights (duh), but ruining peoples fun isn't good for ANet's business. Other games where the developer lets everything slide end up abandoned. Just as people have the right to play the game they paid for however they wish, it is the right of other people to leave the game when it brings them frustration. In fact, I'd guess the number one reason people leave any massive online game is because of the other players.

The definition of any game is its rules, from Tic-tac-toe to Rugby to World of Warcraft. The only requirement to a game's rules is that everyone who plays a particular game must follow the same rules as everyone else they're playing with. Rules are refined for many reasons, and fair play is one of them. Just because they're rules, doesn't mean they must be carved in stone. I think the point of this forum is to allow for suggestions on improving the game.

I don't play Aspenwood anymore, but I am a Kurzick enthusiest and I remember how annoying Aspenwood was. Assuming the Luxons didn't lose any players and that they're not complete muppets, the Kurzicks need every player to work hard and well to succeed. Having to return to base every minute is very cumbersome, and since you have a saboteur, you're already down 1 man as it is.

I think the gatekeepers need a bit more versatility. They need to help keep themselves alive at least a bit.

arcanemacabre · Mar 22, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

The problem would be fixed by giving the guards a condition removal.

Curse You, this sounds like a "proposed fix" to me. Just thought I'd bring it to your attention since it seems you can't be bothered to read the whole 2 pages of this thread.

Seriously, the mechnics don't have to be changed, nor does the skill (like the EoE fix). Just make it so this can't be abused, with an easy fix of adding a skill or two on some NPCs, and bingo. What is so wrong with that? Honestly, I'd like to hear an intelligent objection to that.

Curse You · Mar 22, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Curse You, this sounds like a "proposed fix" to me. Just thought I'd bring it to your attention since it seems you can't be bothered to read the whole 2 pages of this thread.

What I meant was a fix that doesn't mess up the people attacking, just because someone can blow themselves up. Also, if you didn't notice, the Kurzick Necromancers do have a condition remover, however, it only works if there is an enemy within range.

Besides, the root of this problem is a spirit. If you really care so much you would change your secondary to ritualist and take one of their spirit destroying spells, which can kill even friendly spirits. [wiki]Feast of Souls[/wiki], [wiki]Rupture Soul[/wiki], [wiki]Spirit to Flesh[/wiki], all of which are Factions skills.

LoyalSoldier · Mar 22, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So why do we need to completely remove its effects on all NPCs?

Strange....I could have sworn that was my title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

The whole point of Aspenwood is to defend the fort by running across the map. If you don't like running across the map, then you aren't playing the mission as it was designed to be played. But, after all, it is your right to do so. Just like it is the Luxon player's right to cast Pestilence and inflict conditions upon their character. You don't like that Luxon killing Gunther, your teammates don't like you not running Amber. Same basic concept.

Some may be luxons on the kurzick side, but others are just idiots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Besides, if you have a problem with babysitting NPC's/players who don't know how to survive on their own, how do you think Monks feel, given the fact that babysitting idiots is their "job" in this game?

This is completely different from a monk. Monks at least have the option to move around to the different gates or even run amber. Destroying the spirit basically requires me to stay within the green gate and thus I can not defend anything. The players respawn in 2 seconds so I can not wander far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Hmmm, Pestilence
+ Toxicity
= Uber griever?

The spirit works as intended.

In fact, I propose that this thread be closed on the grounds that there is no proposed fix to the problem, only a complaint.

Generally they use EoE, Pestilence, Toxicity, and Laceration. The combined degen is over -10 so it will even degen past a minor regen. Also the damage from each death. People have been sneaky too where they look like they aren't going to try to kill the gatekeepers, but then some time during the round they kill them.

I gave a few solutions. Buffing the gate keepers, maby find a way to change pestilence's effect, ect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Besides, the root of this problem is a spirit. If you really care so much you would change your secondary to ritualist and take one of their spirit destroying spells, which can kill even friendly spirits. Feast of Souls
, Rupture Soul
, Spirit to Flesh
, all of which are Factions skills.

All of which require you to stay around the spirits in order to destroy them.

Curse You · Mar 22, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Thinking about it, i wouldn't mind too much if they were to give the two Gate Keepers (Gatekeeper Radik and Gatekeeper Poletski) Mend Ailment. At least then grievers wouldn't be able to kill off the most vital NPCs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

Really love to know how you kill your own team members with crystal wave.....

Crystal Wave removes all conditions from foes within range. I think that was the effect that they were pointing out, even though it wouldn't work, since they're allies.

Master Ketsu · Mar 22, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Yes, griefing makes the game less fun for a lot of people, but there is nothing in the rules that says you can not kill your own NPC units off with Ranger spirits.

You clearly have no clue whatsoever as to why game rules are created in the first place.

Crushing Power · Mar 22, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

It's exploiting a glitch to kill NPCs you should be helping - on purpose. I'm sure there's something that disallows that sort of thing in the rules of EULA.

MithranArkanere · Mar 22, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Well... the downside of Disease is that it will tranfer to your allies in PvP.

Solution? make your allies or yourself wear any kind of counter condition/conuter disease/condition transfer.

You can't? Then, do not use yourself...

...but here's a problem:
You can't control who do you join with.

So a player may go to the opposite side and use disease on a chum that agreed to go and walk to all allied NPCs and have a disiease transfer/spread skill... and Grenth' Balance too...
Nice, now you have a traitor in your ranks.

That is the problem, not the skills ou have, but the possibilty of a 7vs9... or even worse scenarios.

LoyalSoldier · Mar 22, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Thinking about it, i wouldn't mind too much if they were to give the two Gate Keepers (Gatekeeper Radik and Gatekeeper Poletski) Mend Ailment. At least then grievers wouldn't be able to kill off the most vital NPCs.

I agree that would be a solution. The problem is that the gatekeepers have no defense against degens and their heals can only target someone else. If they allowed the gatekeepers to at least heal conditions it would go a long way to prevent abuse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

Crystal Wave removes all conditions from foes within range. I think that was the effect that they were pointing out, even though it wouldn't work, since they're allies.

Which was my point.